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TRANSCRIPT
Emerson Schwartzkopf 00:23
Hi there. This is Emerson Schwartzkopf, editor of Stone Update Magazine. And we’re here on the show floor at Coverings 2022 in Las Vegas, for a special edition of Radio Stone Update.
Normally, we do a review of the latest news in the world of hard surfaces. But today we’ll be talking to Arpi Nalbandian, who has been a keen observer of the tile trade for more years than we both really want to count. She’s the leading force of Tileometry, and that’s something we’ll get to in a little bit. And, she’s also a regular columnist in Stone Update Magazine. Welcome to the show. Arpi.
Arpi Nalbandian 00:59
Thank you, Emerson. How are you?
Emerson Schwartzkopf 1:01
Oh, I’m not doing too bad. How are you?
Arpi Nalbandian 1:03
I’m doing well. Thank you.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 01:06
Both of us have seen plenty of these Coverings events. I know you last attended the show in 2019 in Orlando. Yes. Now you’re coming back to us. What strikes us being different this time than previous shows?
Arpi Nalbandian 1:20
Are you talking about the products? Just anything? Oh, well, the ambiance, the environment, the products for sure. With the textures, and increase of awareness of wellness, in design and in health, more people are aware of the benefits of tile, the sustainability of it, the hygenic qualities of it. So this is a perfect show to showcase all those qualities.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 1:50
Where have you seen that kind of exemplified the kinds of things where we’re seeing more of the wellness — what products have you seen that really are putting that to the fore.
Arpi Nalbandian 2:02
The products that I’ve seen are more, it adds to like the Zen appeal of the product where it’s not too busy, it’s a very calm color, like neutral earth tones, ocean colors, you know, like blues and greens. Also, like a sand, like the textured sand, where you just reminds you of you’re at the ocean and you’re just breathing and you’re meditating, and it just brings us calm. Your heart rate goes down, basically. And that’s the whole thing for the wellness and health. And everything adds to that, everything. And I think we’re becoming more aware of it, especially with the pandemic that we all experienced. We’ve become more attuned with what our bodies need.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 2:50
Any particular product that really stood out that when you saw it, you’re going, Wow, that’s that’s something — that’s something people should be looking at a little bit more.
Arpi Nalbandian 3:07
Because it’s only the first day and there’s only so much you can see on the first day, but right now, MILEstone really has stood out they have these huge plank — not plank, sorry, panels — looks amazing, actually. It’s a bookmarked panel. And it’s porcelain and sustainable and hygienic, like I said earlier, so again, you’re looking at it and you can just immediately feel at ease. There’s calmness that comes over you. And you have to remind yourself that, oh my gosh, this is porcelain, not stone. And again, I could see that in a spa environment or a yoga studio. Anything that brings that serenity.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 3:46
Any others?
Arpi Nalbandian 3:48
Well, biophilia is huge. And biophilia also adds to the wellness aspect. And I haven’t quite made it over there yet, but I will be there tomorrow, to the west side pavilion, where we have Tile of Spain, and Ceramics of Italy. The European side has a better understanding of the biophilia and it projects that more. I guess it’s more popular in the European countries than it is here. But slowly it’s coming here. Yep. And it’s being more adapted and understood and how it can be integrated into the general architecture and design of any facility or structure. And it’s part of the plan.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 4:33
If somebody would come up, and I know there are listeners that will say that I keep hearing this term biophilia. Give us a little more simple explanation of that. What what does that mean to somebody when you say it’s a biophilic product?
Arpi Nalbandian 4:47
Biophilia is more like biomimicry where you’re mimicking nature. So when you’re looking at something that represents biophilia, it could be natural stones like a gate that we’re looking at right in front of the podcast studio, and leaves, greenery, jungles. You know something that just brings you to a different environment where you don’t think like you’re sitting in a room in a cold room because it adds the warmth and the calm, as I said.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 5:21
What do you see out there in general themes? Colors, for example — are there any kind of particular colors that you’re seeing incorporated, whether it just be solids or whether it be you know, just even parts all veining or whatever.
Arpi Nalbandian 5:36
So the colors, okay, there’s a huge spectrum. You have the really dark dark, like the negative colors, the and then you have these amazing glazes that handmade tiles have used. And there’s the puddling. And it just amazing. So there’s not one tile that is similar to the other, which is the case with handmade tile. And just the concentration, the vividness of these tiles. I mean, I’m more prone to blues and greens, I love those colors. But those are easily integratable to any design.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 6:16
One of the big differences I’ve seen as opposed to what we’ve had in the past is there is a lot of large format. You’re talking 5′ by 10′ slabs, and being featured in booths. Are they kind of taking over or kind of really kind of pushing some of the other things that you see intileto the side, as far as the show at this point,
Arpi Nalbandian 6:39
I don’t think they’re taking over I think they’re adding an another element of the design another choice. First of all, anyone that handles those size panels, like Portobello America has the 48″ by 110″ panels, you need someone that is truly certified to handle those panels, like just can’t be anybody. And there’s a reason for that, because it’s a very intrinsic product, with its own needs. Not only in manufacturing, where they have their own kilns just to handle those panels, but even all the way to the packaging and the delivery and the installation. But you have 48″ by 110″ is huge. And it’s not only for walls, imagine you want it for your countertop, easily no problem. Waterfall countertops, no problem. Bookmatch and your showers that those two panels when they’re put together, it just it makes a stunning vision. And again, health, wellness, you know, you’re in the shower, you want to relax, and you’re looking at this beautiful product. And the image that it’s creating, and you’re drifting off and you’re it’s a good place to be in.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 7:55
There are some things are made in the United States, but a lot of the design, frankly, the ownership of companies, they’re all from somewhere else is being driven from different countries. And maybe in past years, it was the kind of thing of, okay, here’s what we’re doing. And this is what you can have. Do you think that’s kind of changing, especially after the pandemic that there is more of work, maybe looking at these products and saying we really want to respond more to what you want as a customer versus us saying, this is a design that we think you should have or we think this is a great thing.
Arpi Nalbandian 8:34
I think it’s a combination of both. They’re gonna answer the needs of what their clients want. But also they’re going to suggest things that you might need it goes both ways and with with many companies, obviously they want to meet their customers needs but the problem can be getting it over here if it’s not manufactured within the States. And even within the States, it’s been a problem lately with you know, as you know, the gas prices or weather. Things can be a problem and they’re heavy. These products are heavy that we’re representing. But it makes it here .. it might be a little delay, but it’s okay. As long as you can wait for it .My suggestion would be that whether it’s custom or it’s something that’s in stock or for quick ship: Plan ahead. As with anything, plan ahead and be patient, because it’s, it’s not in their hands most of the time.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 10:56
Let’s step back from products for a moment. Let talk a little bit more about well, you actually. Some listeners will be very familiar with your name. And others, frankly, with this podcast tile is something they’re catching up to in the market. And they may not be as familiar. Give us kind of a quick rundown without going through the full resume, what you’ve done in the industry. Where did you kind of get into the tile industry?
Arpi Nalbandian 11:25
So I started in the industry in 1995 with a trade publication, it was called specialist with Howard Olansky, as my editor, who I later learned a great deal from — tough, but tough love. I loved the industry, I loved going to the trade shows, I loved learning about these new products. However, my favorite was always tile only because maybe because I was born in Turkey. So I, my family, my, you know, anyone near me, we always had like marble and stone around us. So we were well aware of the benefits already. So I was really just drawn to tile. And that grew. And shortly thereafter, I became editor of Tile Magazine. After that, I decided to go on my own because I enjoyed it thoroughly. And I wanted to explore things on my own. So I started Tileometry. So I’ve been in the business since 1995, almost 30 years. And every day I learned something new. I love meeting the people of our industry, they’re down to earth, just like the products. And I wouldn’t trade it for the world.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 12:44
What about Tilometry? Give me a little more feeling about that. What what are you trying to do with that?
Arpi Nalbandian 12:51
Tileometry started 12 years ago, again, completely tile-centric. It’s geared towards the design, and architectural audience. And these are the people that specify the products. These are the folks the professionals that need to put in the texture that they need, or the color that’s going to complete the design. And they need to be aware of not only what’s available, but how to use it, its benefits, and how you can adapt it basically to your client’s needs. And I think that’s so important with that flexibility that it provides. So I saw the need for it. There’s no ads that I accept, because I don’t want to be tied down to only … yeah I don’t want to do that. So it’s all me and I do it with pleasure. And I do it 24/7 And with a smile on my face. And again, I love the people of this industry.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 14:01
One of the things with this kind of a presentation is often that we get to the thing where it’s like I’m interviewing you in almost getting you the fifth degree.
Arpi Nalbandian 14:10
Yeah.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 14:11
And maybe we should turn the tables a bit on that.
Arpi Nalbandian 14:14
Yes, we should.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 14:15
Why don’t you kind of you’ve got some questions for me about the show or anything else. Go right ahead.
Arpi Nalbandian 14:19
I do first of all, what do you see different, if anything in this show? What stands out to you in the stone aspect of the show?
Emerson Schwartzkopf 14:33
We see more things that look like stone. And it’s not just that they look like stone. In other words, it’s not that they just are kind of a facsimile, that they actually are almost a replacement for that. We’re seeing that some with the quartz products, and we’re seeing that much greater with the tile products. We’re seeing things to where not only, they can look like a very nice piece of marble or something, but they also when you cut into them, and you can shape them, and they will look like that it won’t just be a picture on a piece of tile like it kind of has been in the past, because that’s the technology that was available. That is growing exponentially. And that is something I’m seeing at the show quite a bit.
Arpi Nalbandian 15:25
These large panels, like we have in the tile industry, the large-format panels is bigger, better for natural stone?
Emerson Schwartzkopf 15:33
That’s where you kind of get into an interesting bit as far as the replacement or as an alternative. When you get into those bigger slabs, then it becomes a problem for people who have been in the tile industry where you know, if you say, Well, what’s a large-format tile? Well, 24″ by 24+. Or, if one person can’t pick it up, it’s not even a tile in large format. This is different, because you’re now getting into the realm of people in the natural-stone industry who are very used to dealing with heavy product,to dealing with things that are ungainly. And they’re equipped to do those kinds of things. And they’re finding that this is a product that they can use. And it’s not necessarily a substitute for natural stone, but it works a lot better in certain areas. For instance, what you were talking about, say in showers, yes, you can make a marble shower. And it’s almost like you should, you know, when you put in the shower, that you had the person who you did this for sign a little waiver saying that you won’t get mad at me ever again, because of the fact that you know that there’s going to be problems . This takes care of a lot because that stuff isn’t there. And you can seal it up plus, you don’t have to go through a large rigmarole that you would do in installing natural stone in some places. I mean, this is something that the tile industry they think nothing of, okay, we can back butter something or we can put some mastic down. And it’s done. That’s not what you do with natural stone. And that’s not what you do with quartz. So essentially, for them in a lot of areas where you would need something to go up against a wall or something that would be say, gravity challenged in a way it’s sloping. This is great stuff. And of course, they’re going to do something like that. And they’ll love that kind of thing. And they’re hungry for that kind of information as to how to do that. And I think if you go around, and if you see some of the some of these large tile companies, you will see more people that you wouldn’t have seen in the past. You will see stone guys looking at this because they want to have this material and they really want to have it as part of their repertoire.
Arpi Nalbandian 17:55
So if the stone companies get into making tile with they have to have a different manufacturing facility with the presses and the glazing and the firing and all that right.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 18:08
Oh yeah.
Arpi Nalbandian 18:08
So that’s a huge expense.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 18:10
Of course, for anybody to actually put in a plant. With quartz, for example, you do have one major problem in manufacturing in the United States, and that is the use of quartz sand. Where do you get it? And where do you get it in a quality to do that? Frankly for virtually every manufacturer in the United States save one they do not use quartz (mainly) from North America.
Arpi Nalbandian 18:40
So where do you get it from?
Emerson Schwartzkopf 18:42
Turkey
Arpi Nalbandian 18:43
Really?
Emerson Schwartzkopf 18:44
Yes. The for the for the main. So you know you have that kind of transportation and whatnot. Whereas with tile, pretty much what you need for tile you can you know, you just can’t dig it out of the earth anywhere but it’s readily available. And the other thing with a number of these large companies — yes, it’s very expensive, but if you have a large enough market here and you can put the factory here, you have cut an entireout segment out of basically the transportation and everything. It’s a common thing in the stone industry that when you look at a piece of natural stone here that then is finally cut and that’s put in someone’s kitchen or someone’s bathroom, that the base cost of that product. 60% of it, is probably in diesel fuel, just to get it out of the ground to get it shipped here and then shipped from the wherever it comes into the port to where the city is, and then eventually to the shop and everything else. So you know, that’s something that tile has an amazing advantage with.
Arpi Nalbandian 19:51
Wonderful. How long have you been in this industry? Emerson? I’ve known you for years.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 19:57
I’ve been in it since 2002. My, my first show was Coverings 2002. That was the show where because we didn’t know what shows we needed to cover. We came to Orlando, went there for three days, then flew to Spain, went to another show for two days, came back here, stayed for a night and then flew back home to California.
Arpi Nalbandian 20:19
Insane, insane.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 20:22
For about 10 years For was nine years I was editor of Stone Business Magazine, And that unfortunately was a victim of the recession that happened. And after that, that’s when I started with stone update and building that, and then doing in the last couple of years Hard Surface Report, which is report of all of the different imports that come in whether they are porcelain or quartz or whatever.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 20:48
And then with the pandemic, and we were kind of stuck inside, that’s when we started our own podcast –this podcast — and we because gee, we you know, we needed to do something and we weren’t going anywhere. So well, why don’t we just start doing this now?
Arpi Nalbandian 21:03
And where would we tune in to listen to that podcast? How would we find it,
Emerson Schwartzkopf 21:08
You would find it wherever your popular podcasts are offered. Literally. You can go to Apple, you can go to Stitcher, you can go to Google podcasts. And you can find it there. It also has its own website of radiostoneupdate.com. And you can find that and there you can also find a transcript of every, every one of these. If you’re just that thrilled that you want to go through the back recordings, we have all of those too.
Arpi Nalbandian 21:32
That’s good to know. You go to Verona every year Correct?
Emerson Schwartzkopf 21:36
Almost every year I used to; now I’ve kind of picked back up on that. Yeah.
Arpi Nalbandian 21:40
So when you go to Verona, are you allowed to visit the quarries?
Emerson Schwartzkopf 21:48
You can if you want to generally with with those quarries. Frankly, a lot of the stone that comes from Italy isn’t originating there, it’s a processing area, it’s become much more of that. Marble is probably the one thing that you still have in Carrara.And yes, you do have that, you do have that. For granite. Most of the things that sent in Italy are processing, which is essentially seeing these large blocks come in and then cut up with these gigantic saws, which are just scary to see
Arpi Nalbandian 22:25
I can only imagine.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 22:27
And then that’s polished into slabs, shaped, and then it’s sent off to wherever in the world. But you know, you do that. And it with Verona we’re seeing, it’s a little different. The pandemic really took its toll last year because we had a problem because three of the main natural stone processing areas, if you will, and also suppliers in the world are China, Brazil, and India. China wasn’t letting anyone in or out and the Italians actually just said no, you cannot come if you are from Brazil or India along with several other countries. And that really took its toll on the show. That will not happen again this year, which is good.
Arpi Nalbandian 23:14
Yeah, thankfully.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 23:17
Are you going to be going back to Italy to Cersaie at any point?
Arpi Nalbandian 23:16
I hope so. I loved when I went to Bologna to see Cersaie. It’s amazing to me even with Spain. Same thing at Valencia. When you look at these products, you’re just mesmerized and you’re wondering, why are these not here? Because the demand unfortunately is not here. And I feel the more that architects and designers — which both ceramics of Italy and tile of Spain, they bring on for tours of the shows — so when they see what’s out there in the European countries they’re fascinated as well. And then they wonder the same thing: Why aren’t we specifying this? Because you’re not exposed to it, you’re not It’s not readily available, you know, so you can’t specify what you don’t see. So in a way, slowly, things are being integrated, especially with like the textures. More like floral motifs, not so much as a mosaic, but it’s it’s inkjet press that puts on those motifs. So it’s not as I hate to use this word, it’s not garish as it sounds, it’s very subtle. And you can only use a timbale or something, it doesn’t have to be the whole wall of floral motif, he could obviously have the field tile around it. So anyway, I mean, the more that you know, the more that you can do with the knowledge. And again, you have to educate the consumer, no matter what industry, you’re in, educate the consumer. And that’s what we’re all here to do.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 25:04
Because of the way they structured the shows last year, I was able to spend a couple days at Cersaie. And I will tell you that a number of the things that they really emphasize that that show you are seeing here. Some of the major players have brought some of those things, especially with things such as onyx
Arpi Nalbandian 25:25
Yes
Emerson Schwartzkopf 25:26
Onyx-type products, you’re seeing a lot of that you’re seeing also, not only in tile, but you’re also seeing with quartz, a move away from just okay, we’re just going to replicate a marble to where there are different things that they do with the colors with saturation, with some things to essentially make them a little warmer — that they’re not just stark white. And that I think is something …
Arpi Nalbandian 25:58
It adds to the appeal.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 26:02
That’s probably something that we’re going to see more and more of just because of the fact that people are just going to say, well, you know, I’ve seen, you know, all this stuff with Calacattas …
Arpi Nalbandian 26:14
What can be different?
Emerson Schwartzkopf 26:17
This can be different, but it’s not radically different. And it also goes into that contemporary calming theme that you were talking about. And we’re seeing much more of that. And I’ve seen that, you know, even with some of the people with quartz that do come here as manufacturers, I’ve seen much more of that from their products in the day that I’ve been here.
Arpi Nalbandian 26:36
I mean, it’s only day one. And I’m just again, overwhelmed with how much is here and how much I have left to see. But hopefully I can take care of that by tomorrow. Of course, I can’t hit every booth just like you can’t either. But we try our best and we need roller skates sometimes. But we do our best, right?
Emerson Schwartzkopf 26:59
Yes, we do. And I think we have probably walked ourselves pretty much to the end of the day. This is the end of the day here. And I think we’ve almost talked ourselves out of things here. But I do want to thank you for coming in and doing this
Arpi Nalbandian 27:12
Emerson, thanks for having me.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 27:14
I enjoyed it. And you know, there may be some time maybe not at a show that we’ll just do this again for some fun.
Arpi Nalbandian 27:22
Yes, definitely. Thank you, Emerson.
Emerson Schwartzkopf 27:25
Well, thanks a lot and thanks a lot for listening to this special edition of Radio Stone Update.
